Why No Inbreeding From Just 3 Original Hamsters?

[Die Fledermaus]

All pet Syrian hamsters were bred from just three pups who survived the capture of their litter and mother in 1930. The mom was euthanized when she started killing her babies.

The original three who survived from that litter were bred. A quote from Aharoni, who bred them, and was so happy that it was successful:

"Only someone who has tasted true happiness, heavenly joy, can appreciate our elation over the fact that our efforts did not prove in vain... From now on there will be a species of hamster that will be fruitful and multiply even in captivity, and will be convenient for laboratory experimentation. How marvelous are thy works, O Lord!" (The Hamster Handbook, by Patricia Bartlett)

And those offspring produced enough to bring the colony up to 150. It was from those that other places got them.

Now, if all current Syrians are descended from those three, why haven't we seen any of the genetic deficiencies and problems shown with INBREEDING in other species?? Dalmatian dogs for instance; zoos always try to keep enough specimens to be "genetically viable" for breeding purposes.

I always wondered about that issue. If anyone knows, please give me your thoughts.

BTW, I do NOT like this part of the above quote:
". . . and will be convenient for laboratory experimentation".

[dosergirl]

Sounds like Adam and Eve

[Die Fledermaus]

Don't feed them apples or they will have to start wearing clothes!

[calvinator1]

The same is supposedly true for thoroughbred horses - they can all trace their lines to three horses. Thoroughbreds do show the tendencies you would expect from inbreeding - high strung, unpredictable, more likely to suffer from certain genetic disorders. (And yes, I happen to love thoroughbreds so no need to leap to their defense.) Why this wouldn't hold true for hamsters, I'm not sure unless it has something to do with rodent genes in general. They are designed to survive by rapid reproduction, and in cases where all but a few members of a colony have been wiped out, for example, the colony can be quickly restored by the reproduction of just a few members. I would suspect that there is a lot of inbreeding that occurs in the wild as well but the genes remain relatively stable.

[Die Fledermaus]

I guess it's just another advantage rodents have over the rest of us.

[babyboos]

I believe further Syrians were discovered in the intervening tiem between then and now and cross bred into our lines. Read Hamsterlopaedia for more details if you can get hold of a copy.

[Die Fledermaus]

>> I believe further Syrians were discovered in the intervening tiem between then and now and cross bred into our lines. <<

Ah. Very interesting. That would explain some things, and I did always wonder why other Syrians were not found and added to the gene pool. Looks like they were.

[babyboos]

There are still some discovered today though not used as pets, more in university research laboratories in zoology and ecology investigations on these and other such species.
Overall there are now so many strains from the orginal wild captured stock that we are maybe inbreeding 500 generations or more apart hamsters.
Studies have shown that hamsters can identify relatives and they will only breed with them as a survival instinct (last resort) rather than by choice if you gave them two or more mates to decide between. Very interesting species overall. We force our pets to inbreed quite closely (siblings, parents) for colours, laziness, etc etc and this I do not agree with, sorry, this is where problems start to occur. We should always try to find geneticaly diverse stock, as many generations apart as possible I think personally, others have their opinions.

[Die Fledermaus]

babyboos said:

There are still some discovered today though not used as pets, more in university research laboratories in zoology and ecology investigations on these and other such species.
Overall there are now so many strains from the orginal wild captured stock that we are maybe inbreeding 500 generations or more apart hamsters.
Studies have shown that hamsters can identify relatives and they will only breed with them as a survival instinct (last resort) rather than by choice if you gave them two or more mates to decide between. Very interesting species overall. We force our pets to inbreed quite closely (siblings, parents) for colours, laziness, etc etc and this I do not agree with, sorry, this is where problems start to occur. We should always try to find geneticaly diverse stock, as many generations apart as possible I think personally, others have their opinions.

Interesting indeed. I have been told by some people that since the Thirties other hamsters were mixed into breeding stock for genetic diversity.

What I know with other species is that too much inbreeding results in genetic abnormalities and serious problems - such as deafness or hip issues, as in Dalmatian dogs. But I have never heard of inbreeding problems with hamsters, or other rodents. (?) Zoos move animals around to other zoos to keep a diverse and healthy, stock.

[babyboos]

for info on onbreeding problems in hamsters visit www.hamsters.co.uk

[silence]

The first colony of syrians brought back in 1880 died out 30 years later.
In 1971 a litter of 12 was also taken from the wild and they all bred successfully.
Then in 1982 2 females were brought over, but only 1 survived, a female.

I find it hard to believe that with such a thriving pet trade arising from their popularity that no more were captured, and it makes sense it wasn't recorded, since it was probably illegal smuggling.

Today many species are still wildcaught to introduce fresh blood and I don't see why the hamster is any different.

[Die Fledermaus]

Silence, that makes sense. I suppose. Unless professional breeders might have some issues with the colors of wild Syrians.

The story about the hamsters in the 1930's is fairly well known.

[silence]

Yes I am aware of the 1930 capture, I was just adding to that

Though I believe it was actually 4 babies that survived to produce, not 3.
She had 11, killed 1, was euthanised, then the remaining 10 babies escaped, 9 were recaptured, and 5 more escaped in jerusalem.
Unless my figures are wrong..

[Die Fledermaus]

Next, I have to figure out the origins of mong. gerbils and dwarf hamsters (esp. Campbells) as pets! I only have those types.

You know?

[silence]

Well campbells were brought into the UK pet market in the early 1960's, and winter whites arrived in the US the same time as campbells.. forget the year...

Not much to say about them really, they were captured in a number of groups and probably still are on occasion to introduce fresh blood.

There's loads on discovery of gerbs on the net