Post by Die Fledermaus on Dec 12, 2007 0:20:16 GMT -4
I posted on a few boards a request for homemade mixes for gerbils. I got back a load of ideas, some contradictory. It is difficult and perplexing to figure out.
Please look over these different ideas. This is raw material!
Each separate thought, usually from a different person, is separated by a line.
Can anyone reach a CONSENSUS as to what is best?
Keep in mind I remain concerned about the ratio of fats to proteins. Too much protein, for example, can be dangerous to the kidneys.
Here is a link that some of them came from. Others are from the AGS board.
Right Here
-----------------------------
I will buy the cockatiel mix....white millet,black millet, safflower, oat groats, stripe and black oil sunflower seeds, canary seeds. I thought it would be a lot better that the gerbil food mixes. My gerbil doesn't like the little rabbit pellets. Since I give her a bit of fresh celery and a bit of apple a couple of times a week I thought that the cockatiel mix would be good.
_____________________
I have cockatiels, and sometimes their food gets mixed into gerbil food. I don't add a lot of bird seed to my feed because I notice when I clean out the tank, I find it all at the bottom- it was wasted. It's stupid, and cockatiel food isn't that cheap.
Here you see puppy food, kitten food, rabbit food, various hamster/gerbil foods, oats, barley, plain corn flakes. My mixes change, but they flow pretty well. New things are frequently being added, so as the food changes, there isn't much differance all at once (so I'm not totally switching them over to something)
Currently I've got puffed rice, puffed corn and puffed wheat mixed in, along with some rice, kitty food, "8-in-1" brand gerbil food and mouse/rat lab block food. I don't have a picture of it currently.
_____________________
I add other things like barley, wheat, puffed rice, kitten food, other commercial feeds I find on sale, puffed corn, etc.
---------------------------------
I mix cockatiel food, oats, sometimes cat food with gerbil food.
---------------------------------
> Oats
Barley
Green and yellow split peas
IAMS hairball formula cat food
Macaroni
"Egg noodles;" actually made with whole grain wheat instead of eggs.
Raisins
Dried cranberries <<
-----------------------
>> Dried Fruits
Raisins, Apple, Cranberries, Blueberry, Coconut, Raspberries, Papaya, Pumpkin, Banana, Pineapple,
Dried Veggies
Carrots, peas, Parsley, Alfalfa leaves, Potatoes, Parsley flakes, celery flakes, Red & Green peppers deiced, Cabbage flakes, leek flakes, diced Zucchini, tomato flakes, Spinach flakes,
Seeds
Oat kernels, Millet (red & white), Pumpkin, Safflower, Sunflower, Rose hips, corn, barley, milo, wheat (middlings),
Nuts
Peanuts (Spanish), almonds, walnuts
Cereals & Other
Corn flakes, wheat flakes, Barley Flakes, Oat groats, Wheat bran, cornflower, Soya bean meal, Extruded rabbit pellets, Cat food, Alfalfa or Timothy (hay and sometimes cubes), Dehydrated alfalfa meal, heat processed soybeans, soybean meal,
Extras/Treats – Cheese, Applesauce, Cranberry juice, Lettuce, Tomato, Carrots, Broccoli, grapes, apple, clover, boiled egg, cucumber, Dog Cookie, spray millet, Cat/Kitten food, Dried corn on the cob, honey bars, Frozen Fruits & veggies (summer treat)
I really like 8 in 1 “ecotrition” (www.eightinonepet.com) It has alot of great stuff in it which i add to my mix. <<
----------------------
>>
I went to the petstore and purchased a 25 pound bag of finch food. The finch food contained the following seeds:
Canary Grass Seed
White Millet
Small Yellow Millet
Red Millet
Steel Cut Oat Groats
Flax Seed
(the next ingredients where additives like alfalfa meal and calcium carbonate.. if you don't want these things, buy organic seeds in bulk)
Next, I added in about 4 cups of dog food, I used NutraMax 16% protein, no corn, senior dog diet.
Then I added in:
another pound of flax seed
half a pound of rolled oats
a bag of split green peas
2 pounds of lab block
1 bag of veggie noodles
1/2 bag of egg noodles
2 cups of antibiotic and preservative free rabbit pellets
And then these following cereals:
Bran/Flax Flakes
Cheerios
Kashi GoLean
Total <<
------------------------
Add as much cat food as you see fit (to a commercial mix).
--------------------
White Millet
1 Part
Rolled, Steamed Oats
1-2 Parts
Rolled Wheat
1-2 Parts
Barley
1-2 Parts
Brown Flax
1 Part
Pullet Grower Mix
(for protein and calcium)
1 1/2 Parts
Rabbit Pellets
(without antibiotics or steroids)
1 Part
Dried Split Green Peas
3/4 Part
Organic Holistic Dog Kibble
(I used senior Eagle Pack,
16% protein, 12% fat)
1/2 Part
Life Cereal and/or Wheat Chex
1/2 Part
Unsweetened (Plain) Cheerios
1/2 Part
Raw Organic Pumpkin Seeds
1/4 Part
Unsweetened Banana Chips
(crushed)
1/8 Part
-----------------------
>> 1. Crickets... I've done them live, the small-medium ones I feed to my Lawson Dragons. Don't put too many in at once; they will chew on pups in the night. I gutload them before feeding, so they're a bit more nutritious.. . my gerbils really love them, and it's cute to watch them hunting.
2. If using any seed that's made as wild bird feed, REFRIGERATE. I have had an ongoing problem with worms and such hatching out in my feed container... gross...
3. I've been using a mix from WalMart as my base (I can't recall the name... it has "harvest" in the name, it's a hamster/gerbil mix, yellow and orange package) because it has a good blend and 15% protein, and mixed in a box of rolled oats, Total flakes, and a multigrain pasta (won't do that again; they don't really like it and leave it until last, or bury it)... but I'm also thinking of experimenting with the recipe I used to feed my rats. Here it is... maybe if we all brainstorm, we can come up with a proper ratio?
This comes from Suebee's Rat Diet www.ratsrule .com/diet. html; she supplements with a blend of high-protein dog kibble (like Merrick or Innova), but when I tried blending in kitten chow, my gerbils wouldn't touch it.
<<GRAIN MIX
This is a homemade mix that I have formulated using items from my local supermarket (pictured above). As often as I can, I buy from the bulk bins or the store brands. The only item I tend to splurge on is the Total cereal, because it is very nutritious, and recommended by both the Rat Fan Club and my vet. Overall, it costs me between $10 and $15 to put together the grain mix, which lasts me a couple of months, depending on how many rats I have. The weights listed are approximate.
1/2 to 1 lb. dry rolled oats
Quaker is fine, but may be more expensive; I buy mine in the bulk bin at the supermarket. Keep in mind that oatmeal is binding, so too much can cause constipation problems.
(1) 5.3 oz. box puffed wheat cereal
Malt-O-Meal, Quaker or Kashi, which is available in natural food stores. Cheerios are also a viable alternative, if the other two are not available, but keep in mind that there may be added sugar. I use the Quaker, as it has no sugar content. The exact oz. amount between brands is not a big deal. The 5.3 oz is the weight of the Quaker box.
(1) 6.4 oz. box puffed rice cereal
Quaker is the best brand, because it contains no sugar. Rice Krispies really are not recommended, because of salt and sugar content.
1 12 oz. box Total Cereal
Highly recommended by The Rat Fan Club and my veterinarian for its exceptional nutritional content, due to added vitamins and minerals. It's only available in the United States. If you can't get Total, you can add a children's vitamin/mineral tablet to their diet, or use small animal vitamins.
Note: some people think Total has too many vitamins. Keep in mind that on an average day, a rat will only eat a few flakes of the cereal if fed as a part of this mix. The US RDA listed on the box is based on a full bowl. A rat will eat nowhere near this much on any given day.
1/4 to 1/2 lb. roasted, unsalted soy nuts
These are somewhat high in protein, but contain valuable cancer-preventing agents, so they are a good addition to the mix. Not all rats like them. May also be called roasted soy beans -- I think the "nuts" thing is a marketing ploy for humans! If you can't find them, you can work soy into their diet in other ways, such as soy milk, tofu, soy crumbles and soy yogurt. You can also purchase Just Soy Nuts online. Raw dried soybeans can also be toasted at home - Roasted Soy Nuts Recipe.
Note: I recently read that roasted soybeans are also a good source of vitamin K.
1/2 lb dried fruits
Dried bananas and cranberries. The bananas offer potassium, and cranberries are good for the urinary tract. Until recently, I used the banana chips, which unfortunately are fried. I have since discovered Just Bananas, which are nothing more than dried bananas. They also have a lot of other fruits and veggies that make great treats, or additions to the mix.
If you don't want to include the fruit, you don't have to. I know some people prefer to give their rats fresh fruits, instead. I do this when I can, but we don't always have fruit in the house. Some people also avoid fruits in general due to high sugar content. Use your discrection and common sense.
1/2 lb dry pasta
The tri-colored elbows, with spinach and tomato flavor. Nice and crunchy for the teeth, and a good source of carbohydrates, which helps balance the protein in the soy nuts. The box I buy is actually 12 oz., a little more than 1/2 lb. Whole wheat pasta ia also a good choice.
1/4 lb sunflower seeds
The large sunflower seeds for birds (the black and white ones) are best. I used to give my boys the unshelled, unsalted seeds from the bulk department, but they weren't enjoyed as much. Keep in mind that too many sunflower seeds can add too much fat and protein to the diet. Use common sense.
1/4 lb muesli (optional)
Sometimes (especially in winter), I have a hard time getting the rolled oats in bulk -- too many people eating oatmeal, I guess. I found a mix called "muesli" in the bulk department that had a lot of interesting items in it that the rats really like, including rolled oats, granola, pumpkin seeds and raisins. It offers a nice variety, but I would use it sparingly due to sugar content.
Mix everything together in a huge bowl (or divide ingredients in half and make two batches if you don't have a bowl big enough for everything -- I actually end up doing three batches!). Store in an airtight container in a cool, dry place. This makes quite a lot of mix, and will last you quite a while if you only have a few rats -- I usually don't have more than four rats, and it lasts me two months. >>
I used to feed Furry Flowers, which was awesome... and someone at the Springfield show had a fabulous high-test blend now, but the shipping on five pounds of food would probably flatten me.
---------------------
As for cockatiel and parakeet, I have looked at the protein vs. fat
vs. other stuff, and I wasn't satisfied with the breakdown, so I don't
get those. Of course, that is for the ones my local shop carries. It
may be that the shops where you are carry other mixes.
------------------------
I have some that like the rat block. They will take it and run to a
> corner, turn their back and act like it is some kind of treat. Same
> with kitten kibble. I add that once or twice a month to boost protein
> (mostly just for breeding or nursery tanks). Some of the gerbils will
> act like it is a cookie, and run and hide to eat their treat. Not
> sure why.
-----------------------
With the dandelions, I do the flower, the stem and some leaves. They
> seem to like the whole thing.
>
> Yes, some of the seeds are small, but they don't seem to mind. They
> eat it all up - big and small seeds.
-----------------------
>
> > > I am using a bulk canary mix from my local pet store. It is 15%
> > > protein with no corn at all. (I have read some mixed reviews that
> > > indicate higher incidence of diabetes among pocket pets that eat
> > > corn).
----------------
Please look over these different ideas. This is raw material!
Each separate thought, usually from a different person, is separated by a line.
Can anyone reach a CONSENSUS as to what is best?
Keep in mind I remain concerned about the ratio of fats to proteins. Too much protein, for example, can be dangerous to the kidneys.
Here is a link that some of them came from. Others are from the AGS board.
Right Here
-----------------------------
I will buy the cockatiel mix....white millet,black millet, safflower, oat groats, stripe and black oil sunflower seeds, canary seeds. I thought it would be a lot better that the gerbil food mixes. My gerbil doesn't like the little rabbit pellets. Since I give her a bit of fresh celery and a bit of apple a couple of times a week I thought that the cockatiel mix would be good.
_____________________
I have cockatiels, and sometimes their food gets mixed into gerbil food. I don't add a lot of bird seed to my feed because I notice when I clean out the tank, I find it all at the bottom- it was wasted. It's stupid, and cockatiel food isn't that cheap.
Here you see puppy food, kitten food, rabbit food, various hamster/gerbil foods, oats, barley, plain corn flakes. My mixes change, but they flow pretty well. New things are frequently being added, so as the food changes, there isn't much differance all at once (so I'm not totally switching them over to something)
Currently I've got puffed rice, puffed corn and puffed wheat mixed in, along with some rice, kitty food, "8-in-1" brand gerbil food and mouse/rat lab block food. I don't have a picture of it currently.
_____________________
I add other things like barley, wheat, puffed rice, kitten food, other commercial feeds I find on sale, puffed corn, etc.
---------------------------------
I mix cockatiel food, oats, sometimes cat food with gerbil food.
---------------------------------
> Oats
Barley
Green and yellow split peas
IAMS hairball formula cat food
Macaroni
"Egg noodles;" actually made with whole grain wheat instead of eggs.
Raisins
Dried cranberries <<
-----------------------
>> Dried Fruits
Raisins, Apple, Cranberries, Blueberry, Coconut, Raspberries, Papaya, Pumpkin, Banana, Pineapple,
Dried Veggies
Carrots, peas, Parsley, Alfalfa leaves, Potatoes, Parsley flakes, celery flakes, Red & Green peppers deiced, Cabbage flakes, leek flakes, diced Zucchini, tomato flakes, Spinach flakes,
Seeds
Oat kernels, Millet (red & white), Pumpkin, Safflower, Sunflower, Rose hips, corn, barley, milo, wheat (middlings),
Nuts
Peanuts (Spanish), almonds, walnuts
Cereals & Other
Corn flakes, wheat flakes, Barley Flakes, Oat groats, Wheat bran, cornflower, Soya bean meal, Extruded rabbit pellets, Cat food, Alfalfa or Timothy (hay and sometimes cubes), Dehydrated alfalfa meal, heat processed soybeans, soybean meal,
Extras/Treats – Cheese, Applesauce, Cranberry juice, Lettuce, Tomato, Carrots, Broccoli, grapes, apple, clover, boiled egg, cucumber, Dog Cookie, spray millet, Cat/Kitten food, Dried corn on the cob, honey bars, Frozen Fruits & veggies (summer treat)
I really like 8 in 1 “ecotrition” (www.eightinonepet.com) It has alot of great stuff in it which i add to my mix. <<
----------------------
>>
I went to the petstore and purchased a 25 pound bag of finch food. The finch food contained the following seeds:
Canary Grass Seed
White Millet
Small Yellow Millet
Red Millet
Steel Cut Oat Groats
Flax Seed
(the next ingredients where additives like alfalfa meal and calcium carbonate.. if you don't want these things, buy organic seeds in bulk)
Next, I added in about 4 cups of dog food, I used NutraMax 16% protein, no corn, senior dog diet.
Then I added in:
another pound of flax seed
half a pound of rolled oats
a bag of split green peas
2 pounds of lab block
1 bag of veggie noodles
1/2 bag of egg noodles
2 cups of antibiotic and preservative free rabbit pellets
And then these following cereals:
Bran/Flax Flakes
Cheerios
Kashi GoLean
Total <<
------------------------
Add as much cat food as you see fit (to a commercial mix).
--------------------
White Millet
1 Part
Rolled, Steamed Oats
1-2 Parts
Rolled Wheat
1-2 Parts
Barley
1-2 Parts
Brown Flax
1 Part
Pullet Grower Mix
(for protein and calcium)
1 1/2 Parts
Rabbit Pellets
(without antibiotics or steroids)
1 Part
Dried Split Green Peas
3/4 Part
Organic Holistic Dog Kibble
(I used senior Eagle Pack,
16% protein, 12% fat)
1/2 Part
Life Cereal and/or Wheat Chex
1/2 Part
Unsweetened (Plain) Cheerios
1/2 Part
Raw Organic Pumpkin Seeds
1/4 Part
Unsweetened Banana Chips
(crushed)
1/8 Part
-----------------------
>> 1. Crickets... I've done them live, the small-medium ones I feed to my Lawson Dragons. Don't put too many in at once; they will chew on pups in the night. I gutload them before feeding, so they're a bit more nutritious.. . my gerbils really love them, and it's cute to watch them hunting.
2. If using any seed that's made as wild bird feed, REFRIGERATE. I have had an ongoing problem with worms and such hatching out in my feed container... gross...
3. I've been using a mix from WalMart as my base (I can't recall the name... it has "harvest" in the name, it's a hamster/gerbil mix, yellow and orange package) because it has a good blend and 15% protein, and mixed in a box of rolled oats, Total flakes, and a multigrain pasta (won't do that again; they don't really like it and leave it until last, or bury it)... but I'm also thinking of experimenting with the recipe I used to feed my rats. Here it is... maybe if we all brainstorm, we can come up with a proper ratio?
This comes from Suebee's Rat Diet www.ratsrule .com/diet. html; she supplements with a blend of high-protein dog kibble (like Merrick or Innova), but when I tried blending in kitten chow, my gerbils wouldn't touch it.
<<GRAIN MIX
This is a homemade mix that I have formulated using items from my local supermarket (pictured above). As often as I can, I buy from the bulk bins or the store brands. The only item I tend to splurge on is the Total cereal, because it is very nutritious, and recommended by both the Rat Fan Club and my vet. Overall, it costs me between $10 and $15 to put together the grain mix, which lasts me a couple of months, depending on how many rats I have. The weights listed are approximate.
1/2 to 1 lb. dry rolled oats
Quaker is fine, but may be more expensive; I buy mine in the bulk bin at the supermarket. Keep in mind that oatmeal is binding, so too much can cause constipation problems.
(1) 5.3 oz. box puffed wheat cereal
Malt-O-Meal, Quaker or Kashi, which is available in natural food stores. Cheerios are also a viable alternative, if the other two are not available, but keep in mind that there may be added sugar. I use the Quaker, as it has no sugar content. The exact oz. amount between brands is not a big deal. The 5.3 oz is the weight of the Quaker box.
(1) 6.4 oz. box puffed rice cereal
Quaker is the best brand, because it contains no sugar. Rice Krispies really are not recommended, because of salt and sugar content.
1 12 oz. box Total Cereal
Highly recommended by The Rat Fan Club and my veterinarian for its exceptional nutritional content, due to added vitamins and minerals. It's only available in the United States. If you can't get Total, you can add a children's vitamin/mineral tablet to their diet, or use small animal vitamins.
Note: some people think Total has too many vitamins. Keep in mind that on an average day, a rat will only eat a few flakes of the cereal if fed as a part of this mix. The US RDA listed on the box is based on a full bowl. A rat will eat nowhere near this much on any given day.
1/4 to 1/2 lb. roasted, unsalted soy nuts
These are somewhat high in protein, but contain valuable cancer-preventing agents, so they are a good addition to the mix. Not all rats like them. May also be called roasted soy beans -- I think the "nuts" thing is a marketing ploy for humans! If you can't find them, you can work soy into their diet in other ways, such as soy milk, tofu, soy crumbles and soy yogurt. You can also purchase Just Soy Nuts online. Raw dried soybeans can also be toasted at home - Roasted Soy Nuts Recipe.
Note: I recently read that roasted soybeans are also a good source of vitamin K.
1/2 lb dried fruits
Dried bananas and cranberries. The bananas offer potassium, and cranberries are good for the urinary tract. Until recently, I used the banana chips, which unfortunately are fried. I have since discovered Just Bananas, which are nothing more than dried bananas. They also have a lot of other fruits and veggies that make great treats, or additions to the mix.
If you don't want to include the fruit, you don't have to. I know some people prefer to give their rats fresh fruits, instead. I do this when I can, but we don't always have fruit in the house. Some people also avoid fruits in general due to high sugar content. Use your discrection and common sense.
1/2 lb dry pasta
The tri-colored elbows, with spinach and tomato flavor. Nice and crunchy for the teeth, and a good source of carbohydrates, which helps balance the protein in the soy nuts. The box I buy is actually 12 oz., a little more than 1/2 lb. Whole wheat pasta ia also a good choice.
1/4 lb sunflower seeds
The large sunflower seeds for birds (the black and white ones) are best. I used to give my boys the unshelled, unsalted seeds from the bulk department, but they weren't enjoyed as much. Keep in mind that too many sunflower seeds can add too much fat and protein to the diet. Use common sense.
1/4 lb muesli (optional)
Sometimes (especially in winter), I have a hard time getting the rolled oats in bulk -- too many people eating oatmeal, I guess. I found a mix called "muesli" in the bulk department that had a lot of interesting items in it that the rats really like, including rolled oats, granola, pumpkin seeds and raisins. It offers a nice variety, but I would use it sparingly due to sugar content.
Mix everything together in a huge bowl (or divide ingredients in half and make two batches if you don't have a bowl big enough for everything -- I actually end up doing three batches!). Store in an airtight container in a cool, dry place. This makes quite a lot of mix, and will last you quite a while if you only have a few rats -- I usually don't have more than four rats, and it lasts me two months. >>
I used to feed Furry Flowers, which was awesome... and someone at the Springfield show had a fabulous high-test blend now, but the shipping on five pounds of food would probably flatten me.
---------------------
As for cockatiel and parakeet, I have looked at the protein vs. fat
vs. other stuff, and I wasn't satisfied with the breakdown, so I don't
get those. Of course, that is for the ones my local shop carries. It
may be that the shops where you are carry other mixes.
------------------------
I have some that like the rat block. They will take it and run to a
> corner, turn their back and act like it is some kind of treat. Same
> with kitten kibble. I add that once or twice a month to boost protein
> (mostly just for breeding or nursery tanks). Some of the gerbils will
> act like it is a cookie, and run and hide to eat their treat. Not
> sure why.
-----------------------
With the dandelions, I do the flower, the stem and some leaves. They
> seem to like the whole thing.
>
> Yes, some of the seeds are small, but they don't seem to mind. They
> eat it all up - big and small seeds.
-----------------------
>
> > > I am using a bulk canary mix from my local pet store. It is 15%
> > > protein with no corn at all. (I have read some mixed reviews that
> > > indicate higher incidence of diabetes among pocket pets that eat
> > > corn).
----------------