|
Post by sisco18 on Jul 25, 2007 14:42:22 GMT -4
1.)okay so how old are pups when they open there eyes. 2.)how old are they when you can tell sex. 3.)how old before seperating.
|
|
|
Post by Andrea on Jul 25, 2007 16:21:02 GMT -4
|
|
|
Post by sisco18 on Jul 25, 2007 17:50:14 GMT -4
thank you very helpful
|
|
|
Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 25, 2007 19:11:09 GMT -4
Of course, we discourage breeding unless all the babies are going to be KEPT and not given away. Even then, I would rather rescue. Almost all mine are rescues, and all the pet stores know that if they get an injured or slightly deformed critter that I will takehim/her.
|
|
|
Post by pinky on Jul 26, 2007 12:44:10 GMT -4
Of course, we discourage breeding unless all the babies are going to be KEPT and not given away. I don't breed, but I don't understand why you say, DF, that all the offspring must be "KEPT and not given away." What is the difference between those two scenarios? As long as all of the animals have a good home, why does it matter who owns them and where that home is?
|
|
|
Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 26, 2007 15:38:21 GMT -4
I don't breed either and I, too, agree with Robin where I don't understand you at all Tom. If someone breeds, they can't keep all the babies. When Harriet had her seven, we gave five of them away, if the babies are going to good homes then that is fine, sisco18. Good luck with your breeding program.
|
|
|
Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 26, 2007 20:54:39 GMT -4
Because there is no reason or valid point to breeding if all you do is give the pups away. Then why did you breed in the first place? True breeders generally keep their pups (at least many of them) and subsequently determine which are best for further breeding.
Because those who actively breed are experts trying to develop and maintain beautiful and unusual colors--colors which are most desirable. Random breeding, that may merely produce agoutis, is pointless when many are available for rescue.
Because finding truly GOOD homes with responsible people is not easy at all; it is quite hard. Many end up being dumped in pet stores; I know that for a fact.
Because many experienced breeders have given up breeding owing to the difficulty of placing the pups.
THAT'S why. And I know all this from the AGS board, I being a member of that organization.
|
|
|
Post by Andrea on Jul 27, 2007 12:42:53 GMT -4
I'm 100% agree with Tom, he hit it right on the nose with that post.
Right now in my own home I have 15 gerbils that no one wants because someone out there thought it would be cute to have baby gerbils. That 15 are just what's in my house alone, not the rest of the organization I Volunteer for, or the SPCAs, other shelters or pet stores that people keep dropping off these unwanted pets.
"oohh Yeay Agoutis, Blacks, Argents and Lilacs" People who are interested in gerbils DO NOT want these colours, they are to popular and easy to breed.
"Giving away" pets, BAD IDEA. It's a proven fact people who are 'given' pets have a much higher chance of losing interest and neglecting or abandoning the animal. Especially children. You can argue about it how so-and-so still has little fluffy and takes great care of him her, but I see it EVERYDAY. My pets are the animals people didn't want anymore.... i just don't have room for more abandoned animals.
Leave breeding to adults who have the time/money/room to keep all the animals, and who are breeding specific genetics/health/behavior/characteristics not just because they want to.
|
|
|
Post by sisco18 on Jul 27, 2007 13:03:19 GMT -4
I love when people just jump to conclusions and role with it but what ever I wanted the info because I bought a female to introduce to my lone girl little did I know she was pregnant I just wanted to know those things there 5 days old and I was planning on keeping them all anyway.
|
|
|
Post by sisco18 on Jul 27, 2007 13:05:08 GMT -4
sorry if I got people angry I just wanted some basic info so I could tell there sexs early cause im not very good at it and make sure they get seperated out correctly so I have no more litters
|
|
|
Post by Andrea on Jul 27, 2007 17:24:46 GMT -4
I love when people just jump to conclusions and role with it but what ever I wanted the info because I bought a female to introduce to my lone girl little did I know she was pregnant I just wanted to know those things there 5 days old and I was planning on keeping them all anyway. Thread Started on Jun 2, 2007, 6:00pmHi can anyone help tell me how to sex fairly young gerbils i got them from the pet store and i think i have a male and a female even though i wanted two of the same sex. If this was true the pregnant one would have given birth the end of last month. Not five days ago. Reply #15 on Jun 27, 2007, 4:43pmbubba and padfoot bubba is the big male He is a light tan color I think you call It argente and padfoot is a nutmeg she has white front paws I also have her sister who is a nutmeg Podfoot cause she has speckled white spots but they were not getting along that well so I decided to split cage one with my male and keep the first litter of babies and find the rest good homes I know Its not a good idea to breed there are enough in pet stores and shelters but I will only either keep the babies or give them to reliable people. So then how many gerbils do you have? What are the facts, as allot of this contradicts itself.
|
|
|
Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 27, 2007 19:21:28 GMT -4
Well....I don't want to fight, but most of the time that's what breeders do. They breed their animals and then give some away. There's nothing wrong with giving away your animals. You just have to make sure they're going to a very good home.
While I don't breed, when Harriet had her seven babies, Josh and I knew that we couldn't keep them all. We didn't have the time/money/or space for them. We were lucky that we could keep two of them. So we searched for the best owners in our area. We gave one to our cousin, neighbor, Josh's friend, my high school friend, and my bio teacher whom I know loves animals. And all of our dwarfs were happy. But we asked around. I remember asking my friend Scott if he wanted one and he told me he couldn't. Why? He has a cat and some just said, "No, it's okay, but I hope you find an owner."
So giving an animal away isn't bad. There are a lot of people who love their animals a whole lot! True, breeders keep one or two to keep the line going, but I've seen it where they evaluate each owner and if they don't come close to some standards, the animals are not given away to them.
So that's my opinion in the whole breeding process. Like I said I don't want to argue, I'm just voicing my opinion in the matter. Okay let's get back to what sisco18 was talking about.
|
|
|
Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 27, 2007 19:22:59 GMT -4
I'm 100% agree with Tom, he hit it right on the nose with that post. Thanks. I know what I am talking about as do you. Breeding should only be done by experienced genetics experts attempting to produce the most desirable and unusual colors. Other colors are NOT generally wanted. RANDOM breeding produces undesirable colors owing to gene dominance--such as agouti, or black. I love them nonetheless, but they are hard to place if not impossible. Dumping animals on pet stores or people who don't really want them is abusive. What I SAID was if there is any breeding to KEEP ALL THE PUPS. I would still rather a rescue be attempted of needy gerbils, but if someone insists on seeing the process of birthing babies, those babies need to be KEPT. All of them. This is no problem as litters are not huge like Syrian hamsters, and gerbils are social and can be kept together separated by gender. Remember, even experienced breeders, some of them, have said they are stopping the breeding (at least for awhile) owing to the difficulty of placing pups--even pups of unusual colors. So don't breed--rescue.
|
|
|
Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 27, 2007 20:02:18 GMT -4
Okay I have a question for you two. Say people are breeding (any animal) and they don't have the time/space/money for all of the pups that were just born? Would you say to them don't breed again even if they were experienced breeders?
Some do have to give away and when they do they look for owners who are committed.
|
|
|
Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 27, 2007 21:33:06 GMT -4
As I said, there is NO REASON OR POINT to breed unless you are an experienced skilled breeder creating or furthering unusual colors. If someone wants more gerbils, go rescue some. Random breeding produces gerbils where dominant genes predominate, such as those which give us agoutis - the natural color - and those are hard to get adopted. And pet stores have more than they need already.
>> Well....I don't want to fight, but most of the time that's what breeders do. They breed their animals and then give some away. There's nothing wrong with giving away your animals. You just have to make sure they're going to a very good home. <<
Giving away the pups (who were needlessly created by the human) is only part of the issue here.
Experienced breeders have many connections from years of doing that to make it easier giving away pups they do not want to keep. Even so, as I said, some have given up breeding at least for awhile, owing to the difficulty of finding good homes even for their pups of unusual desirable colors.
There is also no reason to give away a small litter when they are SOCIAL animals, small, and, as I said, litters are small in number. I once had a surprise litter of 12 Syrian hamsters--each had to at 8 weeks live alone - and separately. And I kept them all. I have two dozen aquarium tanks here I FOUND (free). The amount of effort required to KEEP a small litter is minimal.
Another reason why professional skilled breeders give away some of their pups is they have so many as they have many breeding pairs, not one pair. And again, even the professional breeders are cutting back. I know that also from the American Gerbil Society board.
Finding truly good homes is VERY hard, problematic, and a big risk for the health and well-being of the animals that were needlessly bred. If they are being given away. .. why were they bred in the first place?? For fun? Just to see what will happen? That is no reason.
|
|