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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 2, 2004 2:21:57 GMT -4
I have recently read some warnings that the presence of pine or cedar as bedding - or even filler in the litter box - can promote liver problems, problems that can possibly result in anesthesia killing the bunny, if an operation such as spaying is needed.
I am still investigating aspen as an option.
Anyone know about this issue?
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Post by yourztruly on Jul 2, 2004 21:39:04 GMT -4
I heard about it possibly doing damage to Guinea pigs repiratory systems, but for rabbits this is the first I've heard of it!
Darn shame, too. Pine and aspen & cedar is so cheap, while non-aromatic beddings cost a fortune... does anyone around here know of a good place to buy bulk bedding?
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 2, 2004 21:46:40 GMT -4
Aspen is aromatic?? I thought it was not, and that was why we used it, and why cedar was so very bad. (can anyone smell aspen such as the other woods??).
Someone suggested I use sawdust. Exactly where do I find sawdust? (If you think there are any lumber mills around here you are wrong!).
The idea about the liver is it weakens or damages the liver so it can't process the anesthesia. this is more so with rabbit that are over 1.5 years old as the damage accumulates with time, supposedly.
Using ripped up paper towels is cheaper than Carefresh.
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Post by jeannie on Jul 2, 2004 22:05:49 GMT -4
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 2, 2004 22:09:32 GMT -4
... does anyone around here know of a good place to buy bulk bedding? What kind of bulk bedding?? |
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 2, 2004 22:34:49 GMT -4
More info. . .
I never have bought or accepted pine or cedar for any purpose.
I was reading a medical report from someone at Miami University. And here is a follow up e-mail on this matter I just received:
>> Actually, *all* xylem tissue (that's the dead, hollow part of a tree that
makes up the wood) has some aromatic phenolic compounds. It's a matter of
degree and type. If you check out some wood turners' sites, you'll see
all manner of cautions for the turners to use ventilation and respiratory
protection whenever they turn *any* species of wood.
Cedar wood has more obvious odor, and shavings are not good litter. But
*any* wood shavings will release some small amount of volatile aromatics
while they're fresh. Whether they are truly dangerous over the long term
is not known for every species.
> I have lots of experience with hamster and gerbils, and everything I have
> ever read or heard was that aspen is entirely safe, pine ill-advised
> especially if babies are around, and cedar no good at all.
Cedar has more aromatics, and can be irritating over the long term. It is
*definitely* not good to use for small animals in a cage with poor
ventilation, and it shouldn't be used where an animal is forced to breathe
the fumes all the time.
But I get panicked notes from people asking whether the cedar-lined closet in their house is going to kill all their pets. (Hint: it's not) All trees deposit herbivore-deterrents in their wood. Some species are more toxic than others. Aspen is probably one of the less toxic woods. But it still contains some aromatics. I wouldn't worry about them, especially if the wood is pelleted sawdust. The processing removes much of the aromatic stuff, and in the pelleted form it has very low surface area, so relatively little aromatic release.
P.S. - The main issue is probably shavings versus pelleted sawdust more than aspen vs. pine vs. cedar. I would not use shavings. I have no trouble with any type of pelleted sawdust.
Dana Krempels, Ph.D.
University of Miami Department of Biology
House Rabbit Society of Miami, FL
dana@bio.miami.edu
<<
Unfortunately, I have no idea where I can find "pelleted aspen sawdust" or any other kind of sawdust.
So, I am asking for more information. . . to be continued. . .
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Post by dosergirl on Jul 16, 2004 1:21:50 GMT -4
I got a ton of wood shavings from a carpenter friend who was planeing (?sp) boards for some project. I've used it for the kitty but have yet been afraid for the buns. I'll have to check with the bunny boards to get an answer.
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 17, 2004 0:47:28 GMT -4
Again, that university PhD also warned me about even aspen shavings (not pellets). I have no idea why, nor have I ever heard of aspen pellets. Some people recommend Feline Pine as litter, but isn't that another form of pine with aromatic oils?
The whole point is to keep Poppy's liver in good enough shape to safely handle anesthesia.
If I find out more I will add it here. . .
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Post by rasputin on Jul 17, 2004 16:43:16 GMT -4
I use pelleted aspen, but I have only got it from the local chain. It is produced by Green Pet Products Inc, P.O. Box 129, Conrad, Iowa 50621. It is 100% organic, claims to have liquid holding capacity 185% of volume.
You can call them at 1-800-405-6378.
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 17, 2004 22:26:05 GMT -4
www.greenpet.com>> Aspen Supreme™ Pellets - All Natural Litter/Bedding Aspen Supreme offers superior absorbency for small animals, providing a drier environment. It also offers superior odor control. Aspen Supremeuses a special blend of fresh aspen wood particles - a natural by-product of a renewable resource - and contains no cedar or pine. It can be used for ferrets, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, rats, mice, gerbils, chinchillas and similar small animals. It's also an excellent bedding for reptiles or litter for all caged birds. << PETCO: >> Green Pet Aspen Supreme Pellets Pet & Bird All Natural Litter/Bedding Select Product Choice: » net wt. 10 lbs. Sale $6.29 » net wt. 20 lbs. Sale $9.89 << I wonder if they have that at the store near Union Square in Manhattan? (I despise mail orders).
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