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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 3, 2007 20:21:39 GMT -4
Okay I've missed all of you!!! As you all know I help my neighbor out by walking her small dog, a Shih Tzu/Brussels Griffon mix. Anyway Dusty was fine the first few times I took him out. He was a little chubby at first, but since I walked him about 30min he's been getting used to walking. I let him stop to do #1&2 or to rest, but here's my dilemma with him now and I'm seriously hoping (and praying) all of you can give me some answers to them! 1) When we begin our walks Dusty always walks behind me. Never in front like a normal dog. He'll eventually walk ahead of me, but it's rather annoying to have a dog walk behind me. Why does he do this? I know he's stubborn, but really? 2) He cannot pick a lane (as I call it) to walk in. I told Mike (this guy I work with) that it would look comical if you watched us as I keep switching the leash back and forth from my left hand to my right hand. Dusty just cannot walk on one side for too long. Why is this? Does he like the grass better on one side? Is there anyway to break him of this? 3) This one is the most dreadful one of them all! He just will stop dead and lie down. He's not resting, he just doesn't want to go my way, he wants to go his way. His owner spoils him to no end, I will call her up (Evelyn) and I hear her in the background saying, "Dusty do you want to walk with Katie?" Or I get a "Oh no he just ate, you can walk him at 2:30." But enough of her, she annoys me too. Like with today!!! Anyway I hate to drag Dusty, but end up always doing that when he lays down. Is there any other way I can get him to move? I've tried to trick him with treats and he's very smart because when he laid down again and I tried to bait him, it didn't work. So please help. I have to walk this dog a lot. Every day from morning, noon, and evening and this three things are driving me so insane that I dread to walk this dog! This dog is Evelyn's baby (literally), so I don't want to tell her all this bad stuff about him when she praises the dog for everything and even has a car seat for him! It's too much!!! Dogs aren't children. As Leia said in "A New Hope" and I'm going to change one word of it: "Help me RR, you're my only hope."
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Post by hamwolf89 on Jul 3, 2007 21:33:23 GMT -4
#1: You have come and become the boss of this dog and in charge and it natural for a dog to "follow" the dominite one. It may be annoying but atleas tyou know your in charge. #2: There is lots of exploring to a side walk with other dogs walking on it to and leaving their mark. To try and break this chain you need to walk derectly on the side of the dog and if the dog tries to go on the other side give a tug and a little EHH/SHHH however you get its attension. #3: A choke collor can solve this or better yet puting the leash right behind the ears. walk a bit faster. Keep the leash tight so if he trys to laydown he cant put his head down. Right when he tries you give a tug. I f he is still refusing there are other meathods. One is to be calm and if he refuses dont be angry, be calm tempered the whole time to where the dog would be fine with this(it could take a long time before a normal walk) One other way is to show that YOU are the boss. When he stops say NO in a firm voice and place 2 fingers on the dogs thoat. If you do that right doggy should roll over and be submissive. call him and then continue your walk.
im not 100 persent positive this will stop these behaviors(specialy #3) but i hope it works well enough. best wishes
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 3, 2007 22:05:40 GMT -4
Thanks so much Hollie; I will try these tomorrow!
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 4, 2007 2:48:13 GMT -4
I was going to say a shorter tighter collar. Other than that I have no dog training experience. The perfect person to call would be. . . warreneckstein.com/>> T H E P E T S H O W NATIONAL SHOW - USA & CANADA Saturday 4-6pm EST : Web Broadcast syndicated from WOR 710 New York Call in: 800-321-8828 <<
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 4, 2007 12:29:38 GMT -4
I can't really do the choke chain thing because it's someone else's dog, but I will do all those things you suggested in about five minutes.
And yes, I could try him and someone else, Tom. There's this Animal Planet show called: "It's Me or the Dog" and this lady there had some good points which I will try and see if I can e-mail her on it too. If not, I'm sorry Evelyn I can't walk Dusty anymore.
Thanks all!
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Post by hamwolf89 on Jul 4, 2007 13:12:01 GMT -4
and there is cesar millian..and this other guy..i have no idea what his name is....
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 4, 2007 15:45:38 GMT -4
I'll try to look him up too, thanks Hollie.
Update: He did pretty well today. I got in his way when he would go to one side. I told him "No" when he laid down and all in all I think it went well. But Dusty didn't like it, how do I know? When I went to pick him up at 6:30 today he didn't budge to go out with me and I swear that dog gave me the evil eye as if to say, "You're getting tougher on me and I don't like it one bit!" Hey everyone gives in to this dog...as for me, no more will I!
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Post by pinky on Jul 5, 2007 13:16:29 GMT -4
I know it's out of character for you to be firm with an animal--you strike me as a softie --but you're doing a good job of trying to be firm with an animal who needs that approach. Good luck!
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 6, 2007 7:49:56 GMT -4
Thanks Robin and you're right I hate to yell at a dog. The afternoon walk was horrible! He laid down six to seven times before we even got out of our complex! They have the regular leash too, not those ones that let the dog go out too far before reeling them back in (not sure of the proper name for them), so I'm going to ask Evelyn to us the regular leash as it's better for me.
Thanks for the luck! I'll need it with Dusty.
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 7, 2007 21:14:43 GMT -4
Keep us posted.
I will say that having listened to Warren Eckstein for many years he would say NEVER yell at a dog. Something else needs to be tried.
Loose Leash Walking Using Positive Reinforcers
Let’s see how complicated I can make these simple techniques…
What do I need? You’ll need a flat collar, 6 ft. leash, a treat bag (optional), a bridge word, and a positive attitude.
What’s a “bridge” word? A bridge word is the connection between a behavior and the dog’s reward, signaling a reward is coming. Bridge words help to wean the dog off food, teach the dog to focus on you rather than the treat, and improve your timing. It needs to be short, distinct, and enthusiastic. For this example, I would suggest using a word like YES!, and will simply state BT for “bridge and treat”. You could use a clicker for your bridge, but as critical as teaching loose leash walking is, let’s keep it simple and our hands free by using a bridge word instead.
Tip #1: Don’t feed your dog before the walk…feed the dog on the walk – a hungry dog is an attentive dog. Bring great food (stinkier the better) as well as his normal meal – you are competing with the environment!
What are you competing with? Other dogs, fire hydrants, squirrels (Elsa’s favorite), kids, trash, the rustle of leaves, the whisper of the wind…the list can go on and on, therefore, when you are first teaching these techniques, your rewards (food) needs to be of high value to your dog. Kibble may be enough for some dogs, but for those especially non-food-motivated pups, stinkier is a must.
Why do dogs pull? Dogs pull because they can. What we seem to forget as humans is that a dog has a separate agenda different than our own. We don’t want our dog to pull, it can hurt their necks, but pulling gets the dog where it wants to go…there in lies the problem and we have to distract them from their agenda with our secret weapon, food (the reinforcer). If we can teach the dog that pulling gets no reward, but walking nicely can…viola, you can make it out the door.
Will I always have to use reinforcers? NO! At first it may seem so, because you need to, but as your dog progresses, rewards will be offered variably, randomly, eventually hidden and faded. Some dogs can enjoy walking so much that the walk alone can be a reinforcer.
How should my dog be acting before we start on the walk? Before attaching the leash, your dog must be sitting and patient. A round of fetch before walking may be needed to burn off excitable energy. If you don’t have time for this, a simple 6 ft. leash may be enough if attached to the collar and looped under your dog’s belly and crossed over the top of his back…a leash made no-pull-harness. Gentle Leader’s Halter collar or Easy Walk harness are also alternatives to prevent your dog from practicing pulling. Always consult with a professional on how to use these aids correctly.
Where to start? Start in a quiet setting free from distractions. Start with short intervals, and start with fun in mind. Most people will probably start inside their own home.
Step 1: With your dog attached to leash and sitting, stand facing your pup. Back-up and encourage your dog to follow by offering a treat every couple of steps. Keep the leash loose and offer rewards for the loose leash. We all know that dogs like to chase, so the backwards motion helps to keep their attention. I would recommend practicing Step 1 for a few days before moving on to Step 2, and time rewards such that the leash is always loose.
Tip #2: Don’t be penny-pinching with the rewards in the beginning. The rapid fire rewarding will help to keep your dog focused on the most importing thing in the world…you! This will also help to teach other behaviors later down the road.
Step 2: Now that your dog has begun to follow you easily, begin walking forward.
Tip #3: Reinforce the side you want your dog to walk on by offering treats only to that side…for this example I’ll choose left. This means keeping your free hand (left) at your side and holding the leash with your right hand. If you were to offer treats with your right hand while your dog is on your left, it will cause your dog to cross in front of you…that’s a no no, and it could be a hard habit to break.
Tip #4: Keep your leash short enough that you can reach out and touch the dog (about 2-3’ long). It may help to knot the leash where you want to keep your hand, so you don’t “reel in” the leash as the dog gets closer.
Now practice moving forward only if and when the leash is loose, and not before you have your dog’s attention. Take a few steps forward offering rewards as you did in Step 1. Repeat this 5-10 times then move to a new location, and build up on the number of steps required before reward, daily. Practice 2-3 sessions a day for no more than 10 minutes at a time.
What if my dog lags behind? You either don’t have a high interest food, poor timing, you’re not animated enough, or you’re in a too high distraction area.
But my dog still pulls, now what? Perfect! Now you have an opportunity to teach your dog that pulling never works. If your dog begins to pull during any point of a session, stop in your tracks. This is called “becoming a tree.” Keep your feet rooted into the ground and let your dog run into the end of the leash. Stand still until the leash becomes slack, then BT for attention and begin to walk again.
I don’t know CP, I’m a sycamore and my dog is still pulling, what now? I’ll ask a question back…what are you doing with your arms? Are your feet in place, but your arms are following the dog? You can be a better handler then that! If your dog continues to pull despite being a tree, gather the leash and hold it up against your waist, with both hands, to shorten up the line. This will reduce the freedom to roam and narrow down the area where he can find your attention again. BT when your dog comes back to you attentive and the leash is loose.
Step 3: Now that you are successful moving forward, practice changing directions. Turn your back on the dog and step away, when he goes to your side, praise for a couple of steps while he is next to you, then BT. Notice I said “praise” for a couple of steps before BT…praise is saying enthusiastically “good boy”, or “that’s right little guy.” We’re working on the start to eliminating treats. If you lose the dog before you are able to BT, you are taking too many steps. Change locations frequently, and give a big reward (lots of treats) if your dog ignores something particularly interesting to stay with you.
Step 4: Add distractions. Start inside your home like you have the previous 3 steps. While rewarding every few steps, walk 10 times back and forth or until he continually focuses on you – in the kitchen through the living room, out the back door to the back yard, around the house, to the front yard, up and down your drive way, in front of your house, from your house to the neighbors, from your house to the neighbors on each side and so on, adding another house every ten repetitions.
Obviously only you know your dog, so only you would know what a mild or major distraction is. The ideal is to start with mild distractions and build up to heavier ones. But again, at any point your dog begins to lose attention, be a big oak, a maple, or a noble redwood tree. When you have a loose leash and attention again, take a few steps and BT, and add some distance from the distraction. You can repeat walking by the distraction at narrower distances if the distraction is willing to participate.
Being a tree still doesn’t work can I give him a pop on the leash? He’s really pissing me off. I think it’s time for you to end the session…at least until you cool down. If you’re not having fun, imagine how your dog feels to be punished for what comes naturally to him. If a distraction is too much, simply flip a 180 and walk the other way...your dog won’t have a choice but to follow you. Distractions are minimized with distance. Again, if the distraction is a willing participant, practice walking closer with a loose leash, continue to BT until your dog forges ahead, then turn around. Add more distance with each repetition instead of nagging him for attention.
Tip #5: Practice Step 4 a lot. You can practice with distractions if you can find a willing participant and a favorite toy in your backyard. I recommend a 5 year old and a squeaky toy. If you can get your dog to keep a loose leash up until you reach the child and toy, reward him with play. With practice, you can gradually set up all kinds of distractions around your home by adding more toys, chew treats, food bowls with food, or kids at play, along your practiced path. Just don’t forget to use distance to your advantage until your dog can handle them all.
Step 5: Practice out in the real world. If you can pick locations that are not likely to overpower your dog’s attention…this would be the ideal. An early morning walk at your local park, while everyone is still asleep and sun breaks, paints a great picture of an ideal setting for that first long walk.
Just remember that distractions are likely to happen, regardless of how well you plan your excursions. At those times practice walking away and praising your dog as soon as you have his attention again. In the same breath, if your dog surprises you, reward him generously with affection…because that’s what it’s all about, right?
That’s it! This is probably the longest post I’ve ever written...it’s not as easy to write in words as I thought, but I do hope many of you will find it to be useful. There are other methods out there to teach a dog to walk at heel, but I’ve found none to be more in sync with how I believe a dog should be treated than these. Please let me know if this thread is worthy of being stickied, and if anyone else has any valuable tips, please do share. Good luck and happy walking.
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 10, 2007 19:02:42 GMT -4
First of all, I don't yell at this dog. I am firm with him. Your post is saying that this dog isn't trained, Evelyn has pointed out numerous times with me that Dusty is a well-trained dog. He just knows he doesn't have to listen to me because I'm not always good on commands. I am working on this and so far the "come" is working. Well for those reasons of why Dusty lags behind, they're not it. It's not that this dog isn't trained, he clearly is as I've seen Evelyn and Larry do. He's just lazy and wants to go his way. Thanks for your post, but it's more for people who are just getting a dog and training them. I told Evelyn I can only walk Dusty on Wednesdays and Thursdays. I think if I'm more upbeat with this dog and think this walk will be fun like some of the others were, he'll react better as because last week he was fine with me and only laid down three times out of our 20min walk. But thank you to all of you for your suggestions. I will keep them with me as I walk him two days a week. If I ever forget them I will come here and review them. Thanks again!
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 10, 2007 22:30:43 GMT -4
>> He's just lazy and wants to go his way. << And your appropriate solution for this problem is what??
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 10, 2007 23:00:00 GMT -4
I make him go my way by lightly tugging on his leash. If he lays down, I go above him and give the leash a sort of forceful tug indicating he's getting up. Sometimes when he gets up, he doesn't walk right away, so I have to drag him just a bit. After awhile I tell him he's a good boy. But when he does lay down I say, "No Dusty, no laying down."
I try to be firm, I don't yell. My problem is I hate to drag him, but with him I have to.
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jul 10, 2007 23:45:34 GMT -4
Why not give him a little electric charge on his butt when he won't get up? Zappp!
;D
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Post by Hamsters82 on Jul 11, 2007 8:42:32 GMT -4
I think I like to do more than just that.
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