New to own pet rats - AGGRESSION PROBLEM

[dizzyandshadow]

Hello. I just got to pet rats and they where litter mates, both males. But They keep boxing with each other and the b& w (Shadow) one keeps bulling the white one. Also I saw a little bit of blood on the white one (Dizzy). Im not sure if I should seprate them or keep them together. They cuddle w/each other and are grooming, but it just seems like every so often shadow beats up dizzy. Dizzy is bigger and he still gets beat up. He squeeks and sounds like hes hurt. I got them for my husband and we kind of are attached to them so we dont want to get rid of one. Please let me know what I can do.

[Die Fledermaus]

Welcome to the forum.

Do not get rid of one. They are both your pets and your guys. I recently had a surprise litter of two new females - I now have six females and ten males here, and I love them all. And no one fights, although at night I occasionally hear some loud squeaking, but never is blood seen.

It is rare for just two litter mates to fight, but it can happen. I would give them more exercise, more time out of their habitats (what kind of cage/home do you have and how big??), and certainly consider more room, and you should change the bedding and clean everything; I would use a different type of bedding also. What kind do you use?

If all else fails, and there is serious injury, they will have to be separated - but each will need only half as much room as they have now.

By the way, read the other threads in this forum about my rats, rat habitats, the two I had adopted out, and about rat care in general.

Good luck.

[Die Fledermaus]

Check out this important and useful link regarding rat aggression:

www.ratbehavior.org/Aggression.htm

This part is very important for me, also, as mine are just under four months old:

>> Age and aggression within a colony

In general, young male rats play fight together from age 5 weeks to around age 5-6 months. Play fighting isn't serious, nobody consistently wins or loses, and nobody gets injured. As the young males approach social maturity at around 5-6 months of age, however, their fighting becomes serious, with chasing, sidling, and biting, and one rat emerges as a consistent winner. In this way a stable, long-term dominance hierarchy emerges between the males. The dominant male also tends to be the most active and to copulate most frequently with the females. Females, for their part, tend to behave less aggressively toward each other, but a female dominance hierarchy may emerge while they are pregnant or lactating. <<

Note that they refer to the presence of females. The lack of female odors should make fighting less likely. But if it does occur let one become the dominant rat. I have seen this with dwarf hamsters and gerbils - establishing dominance. But if one gets seriously injured it is time to house them separately, I would assume.

[moshev]

In my breif experience I make sure to give each one equal amounts of attention.I am careful when offering treats that I give each one theirs at the same time.There have been very few squabbles being as soon as I stand up their attention is directed towards me-therefore I make sure that they have their own pecking order but also recognize me as an Alpha coordinator to whom they are both dependent on. I think like children alot of it depends on their attitude which can be affected by the way they are handled.To not handle them on a daily basis is one way that aggression can begin.

[adoptaratcanada]

Hello. I just got to pet rats and they where litter mates, both males. But They keep boxing with each other

The rats (all males) I've had were either litter mates or grew up together and of a similar age, and I've experienced similar things. I hope my experiences can help...

Boxing is a classic "stance" for rattie roughhousing. Not much different from the tumbling and chasing. I wouldn't worry about that in itself. However, if I'm present and have ANY concerns, I'll always break up a situation. I suspect sometime they are just playing but I'd rather make sure they know *I'm* the big alpha that's supervising.

Male rats engage in dominance play ALOT. *IF* no-one is getting hurt I wouldn't worry too much (more on this below). However, they ARE just doing what rats do, and they will in fact continue.

b& w (Shadow) one keeps bulling the white one. Also I saw a little bit of blood on the white one (Dizzy).

With my old rats, Chopin was CONSTANTLY harrassing Lennier and it was getting out of hand. It never stopped and Lennier couldn't get a moment's peace. When Chopin bit me real bad I made the decision to have them both fixed. Two mistakes I made from this situation. Chopin bit me so bad, I was afraid for Lennier...that bite was bad on ME, but would be a disaster on a small rat, so I separated them. Between fear for me and fear for Lennier I never put them back together. In retrospect I should have, but at the same time they each really were alot more relaxed afterward. However, given what I know now, I would reintroduce them. The second mistake which is a long story, is my assumptions around why Chopin bit me....took a very long time to piece that one together.

Sometimes rats will accidentally go overboard and cause a small injury. However, in my case most scrapes have been caused by the rat himself, with sharp hind claws! So, unless you see it happen, you won't know if Shadow caused it. Injuries on the head/shoulders/neck, even on the back can easily be self-inflicted.

However, if I felt one rat was doing injury to another, I would look at either separating them, or neutering one or both.

He squeeks and sounds like hes hurt.

I hear that alot from my rats. If I think it's too loud or it's persistent I'll break them up. I just read recently that when rats are grooming (which is sometimes a dominance thing, too) that the groomed rat will squeek to let the other know it's too rough, or it's a way of saying "I give!" and make it clear it's not a threat to the rat doing the grooming. I've heard that in the case of introducing new rats, for instance, that if you hear squeeks, not to worry, but if you hear SCREECHING, then it's a problem!

The rats I have now, Hugh and Locutus, Locutus is somewhat larger, but like with your rats, he's the one that gets beat up! Hugh is really feisty and active and Locutus is a big old friendly boy! Because Hugh wouldn't leave L. alone, and because I was having problems with him myself (a bit of biting and some aggressive behaviour) I decided to neuter just him. It's worked out great! Even though Locutus is bigger and not neutered, it's sort of helped level out the playing field! They get along alot better now, and Hugh and I get along waaaay better, too!

If you feel forced to separate them, I would suggest getting another playmate for each of them. Personally, I'm shy of the idea of introducing rats (quite a process, I can fill you in on that, if you need it), so if it were ME, I'd look at giving Shadow the big snip. That'll learn 'im!!

Keep us posted! I'm sure it will work out!

In the meantime, you can add some Rescue Remedy to their water. You can buy it at health store, and even some pharmacies and vets care it now. Or you can order it online. You can use a drop per 2oz of water. It helps to take the edge off them.

Good luck and keep letting us know how it's going!

linda

[Die Fledermaus]

Thanks. Tell us more about Rescue Remedy, no wait! I already did!

CLICK ON THIS LINK

Anyway, I hope neutering will not be necessary for my guys.

They DO have VERY sharp claws!! I got all scratched up from them, and now always where thick long sleeve shirts when the climb on me.

Some of my guys:




That is a mouse Habitrail-mini on top of the cage.

[Hamsters82]

Hi, I don't know much about rats, but I just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Hope to see you around.

[Die Fledermaus]

hamsters82 said:

Hi, I don't know much about rats, but I just wanted to welcome you to the forum. Hope to see you around.

Nothing like a friendly greeting!

And even if you know nothing you can learn by reading!