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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 14, 2004 23:30:55 GMT -4
Here they are at long last! Meet FREYA!    Meet FRIDA!   Meet PUGSY!   Meet ROBERTA!    Why "Roberta"? Her fur looked smokey and that reminded me of "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" from the classic musical "Roberta", by the great Jerome Kern (lyrics by Otto Harbach). the title tune sung by the venerable Irene Dunne. Anyone recall the Platters' great version in 1959? (My mind works in esoteric ways!). Pugsy looked like she lost a few fights to Muhammad Ali's daughter. ;D >> They, asked me how I knew, My true love was true, I of course replied, something here inside, Can not be denied. They, said some day you'll find, All who love are blind, When you heart's on fire, you must realize, Smoke gets in your eyes. So I chaffed them, and I gaily laughed, To think they would doubt our love, And yet today, my love has gone away, I am without my love. Now laughing friends deride, Tears I cannot hide, So I smile and say, when a lovely flame dies, Smoke gets in your eyes, << Pretty sad lyrics, actually. But nice mice. |
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 14, 2004 23:35:02 GMT -4
BTW, I must get some photos of how they cling and climb upside down on my fingers. I can't get them off! It is funny and unique.  |
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Post by mishimouse on Jun 15, 2004 0:08:10 GMT -4
Beautiful little gals you have, DF! Each and every one in this batch looks varigated or splashed - can't tell on Roberta, though. My wretched neighbor is named Roberta, she and her children are both pains. I'm especially fond of Pugsy, what a gorgeous little girl! Will have to work out their colors in a bit... Pugsy looks like she has a bit of brindling going on, and Frida's markings look just a bit like a silver grey. Zen is a huge clinger, loves to just hang upside down and run through my fingers. He's a bit of a chubby boy too, so sometimes it is a bit hard for him to be so "athletic"! |
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 15, 2004 0:34:03 GMT -4
Will have to work out their colors in a bit... Pugsy looks like she has a bit of brindling going on, and Frida's markings look just a bit like a silver grey. Zen is a huge clinger, loves to just hang upside down and run through my fingers. He's a bit of a chubby boy too, so sometimes it is a bit hard for him to be so "athletic"! Thanks. Mine do run through my fingers, too. really interesting to see. Keep working on the colors! |
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Post by mikiodo on Jun 15, 2004 16:08:02 GMT -4
Hi, I will tell everyone what kinds of mice these are in the next day or two (I'm the birth parent). Most of my mice are "genies" (transgenic origins), I guess everyone now calls them splashed or merles or whatever. But I can tell you the genetic basis of most of them. I'm typing this from work, but off the top of my head, the one that appears white is actually a recessive yellow mouse (ee) with lower C alleles (siamese/extreme dilution/etc.), and it is also a genie, so it looks almost white but has some light yellow splashes. Many of these off-white mice start off as beautiful splashy dark-eyed creams, and then as they mature the new coat comes in almost white with varying degress of yellow splashes. Also off the top of my head, the long-haired fuzzy is a genie as well, and english brindle. I will post more later...
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Post by jeannie on Jun 15, 2004 17:26:24 GMT -4
Welcome to the board  Are you the breeder from whom Die Fledermaus got the mice? |
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 15, 2004 22:03:09 GMT -4
Welcome to the board Are you the breeder from whom Die Fledermaus got the mice? Yep. And welcome. Drop by and see his gigantic horde sometime!  |
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Post by mishimouse on Jun 16, 2004 0:37:21 GMT -4
I can't see them in person, so guessing their colors is too hard for me. I'm sure the breeder you got them from knows, though.
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Post by mishimouse on Jun 16, 2004 0:39:35 GMT -4
mikiodo - if I'm understanding your post right, you are saying that Kira is a broken extreme dilute yellow? Correct me if I am wrong on that. From what I know, all yellow mice have black eyes, not ruby or pink. I have had yellow mice in the past and they have always had black eyes, and all the yellows I have met do as well.
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 16, 2004 0:58:25 GMT -4
I can't see them in person, so guessing their colors is too hard for me. I'm sure the breeder you got them from knows, though. I meant Jeannie, who also lives in Manhattan. Nice to read you mice experts talking! |
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Post by mishimouse on Jun 16, 2004 1:47:17 GMT -4
Oh, I knew that. I just meant that I couldn't think of their colors judging by the pictures and that I would have to see them in reality to decide. |
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Post by mikiodo on Jun 16, 2004 17:32:27 GMT -4
OK, this is the information I know about these cute critters.
First off, for all the people interested in genetics, let me say that all of these mice are "genies," a term we created that comes from the word transgenic. My understanding is that they have an extra segment of genetic material, which had been inserted in an ancestor long ago, and this gets passed on. This segment for some reason causes areas of the fur to revert back to natural color, whether it be black, chocolate, yellow, etc. This "genie" factor that I have shows up on mice that have lower alleles on the C locus, meaning chinchilla (c-ch), himilayan (c-h), extreme dilution (c-e), etc., and any homozygous or heterozygous combination of these (as well as including the albino allele) -- siamese (c-h/c-h), burmese (c-ch/c-h), himilayan (c-h/c), etc... So what happens is you get the base color with darker smudges, i.e. areas that have reverted back to the natural state. So you could get a siamese with dark smudges or spots, a mock-chocolate with dark smudges or spots, etc... The effect can vary GREATLY, and it is hard to breed an effect consistently. You can have 2 parents with just a little smudging and get a baby with big bold solid dark spots, for example. And I have seen that when the mouse is also pied (white spotted), often the smudging turns to actual solid defined spots, as opposed to more of a splashed look. This genie effect has definitely erased the lines between a lot of easily identifiable colors and types.
Sorry if I haven't been able to explain it better, it is hard to figure out, and hard for me to explain, because it doesn't necessarily work A-B-C.
Okay, now on to the mice in the pictures:
WUZZY: fuzzy longhair; genie; burmese; english brindle
KIRA: longhair; english brindle; genie; recessive yellow (ee); her eyes look redder in the picture but they are actually darker, maybe ruby, I think. When mice have a lot of different genes diluting the fur, the eyes will be lighter, and can vary from pink to black. She might even be a siamese, not burmese. The yellow smudges are areas that have reverted back to natural state (genie effect). She also has a kink to her whiskers, even though she is not a curly, because she is english brindle (causes wavy whiskers).
FRIDA: longhair; genie; burmese or c-h/c-e maybe?
FREYA: satin longhair; genie; siamese i think?
PUGSY: satin longhair curly (caracul); genie; burmese
ROBERTA: satin longhair; genie; english brindle; chocolate
There might be some other genes and modifiers thrown in, but that's pretty much the genetic basis of these mice.
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Post by mikiodo on Jun 16, 2004 17:35:46 GMT -4
Oh, by the way, Squeaking Squid... on a different note --- if you have yellow mice with the pink-eyed dilution factor (pp) you get pink-eyed yellow mice. These are the ones you see with the pink eyes and the vibrant orange coats. Pink-eyed dilution doesn't dilute yellow fur (phaeomelanin), only eumelanin (black/brown/etc).
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Post by mishimouse on Jun 16, 2004 23:45:22 GMT -4
Genetics confuse me way to much. LOL I personally think that Wuzzy looks more like she is a rex - are you sure she is a fuzzy longhair? I'll go with what you're saying, of course - you did breed her. |
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Post by Die Fledermaus on Jun 17, 2004 0:45:19 GMT -4
Oh, by the way, Squeaking Squid... on a different note --- if you have yellow mice with the pink-eyed dilution factor (pp) you get pink-eyed yellow mice. These are the ones you see with the pink eyes and the vibrant orange coats. Pink-eyed dilution doesn't dilute yellow fur (phaeomelanin), only eumelanin (black/brown/etc). I love hearing that kind of discussion - it is so esoteric and arcane! But fascinating. Thanks for the info. I added a new photo thread in the Relaxing Rodents forum showing the mice clinging to my fingers. Check it out RIGHT HERE. |
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