rejected babies - please help

[angel2]

hi people
my mum's g-pig has had a litter of 4 babies this morning. two died and the remaining two are tiny and have been rejected by their mother. she's not pushing them away as such - its just that she's not feeding them and hasn't washed them since she had them. she's also content to sit in the middle of the cage while they're huddled in a corner. me and my mum have just fed them some lactol but they seemed to take such a tiny amount - only about 0.8ml each. does anyone know whats normal? i'm about to do a search on any pig sites i can find that may be able to help me but don't know what i'll find. if anyone here has any idea please let us know. any other tips would also be greatly appreciated. we've left the babies with the mother while we're not feeding them in the hope that she'll change her mind. we tried holding her and letting them feed off her that way but they seemed to have no idea what to do so we're feeding them with syringes (we're being careful- it says not to use syringes in the book but it kinda worked for us)
thanx in advance
angel

[angel2]

i found out that they should be taking about 2ml every 2hours. we've now got them taking that amount when we feed them. they've perked up loads but the mother is still ignoring them. she did curl up with them when they struggled over to her once but she's since just walked away from them twice to lie in a different part of the cage - she's not gonna change her mind is she?
any advice would still be great
angel

[Die Fledermaus]

Thanks for caring so well for the little piggies.

I never had any GP's, although I long wanted them, and will as room permits.

Try this:

Young Pups

Some pups lose their mother to pregnancy related complications. Other pups do not thrive. Weigh your pups promptly after they are born and daily for at least a week to make sure they are getting the food they need. If the pup consistently loses weight for the first 2 days while the other pups are gaining weight, do hand feed.

Tips for the weak and the young:

* What to Feed: Critical Care (or a pellet mash if CC is not available) works best for babies. Try adding a bit of cooked pumpkin (or butternut squash baby food) to the primary food, either Critical Care or crushed pellets. Feed small amounts frequently during the day (the more frequent the better, perhaps every 1-2 hours, at least every 3 hours). At first you may only be able to feed 1 or 2 cc of pellet mash every hour or so. Carefully syringing water (or unsweetened pedialite) can help keep the pup hydrated.
* No Milk Products: Milk products and milk replacer products are not appropriate for guinea pigs (milk). None are formulated to replace a mother cavy's milk. Cavies are quite mature when born (long gestation), so that while a guinea pig will benefit from its mother's milk, milk is not necessary to thrive and survive.
* Technique: Some pups will eat from a spoon. Others need more aggressive hand feeding. Feed carefully to avoid aspiration (getting fluids into the lungs vs. the stomach -- may cause pneumonia).
* Encourage Eating Standard Foods: Make sure pellets, hay, water, leafy green vegetables, and grass are always available so the cavy can begin eating on its own as soon as possible.
* Elimination Tips: You will need to help orphans to pass waste during the first week or so of life. Normally a mother will do this by cleaning the pup's genitals. Wiping the genitals after feeding will help to stimulate elimination. Try a warm, wet washcloth, stroking several times.
* Foster Mothers: A foster mother will often accept pups. Pairing a mother with few pups with one that has many gives the pups from the larger litter a better chance at survival.
* Time Alone: Some runts can benefit from extra time with their mother. Remove the competing pups periodically for 15 minutes or so to give the runt more opportunity to feed.

It is very common that one or more babies are born smaller and weaker than the others. In big litters in particular, big differences in size and weight are seen. The difference arises from different positions in the womb with different supplies of nutrition and oxygen. The 'unlucky' babies have literally speaking been starved inside the womb and have not been able to obtain the same birth size as their more well positioned litter mates. These babies may prove viable and healthy and may be able to compete with their brothers and sisters for the nipples, and they will then survive, although their growth will be somewhat slower than their litter mates. But quite often - especially in litters of five and onwards - such babies will succumb after days, as they prove too weak to suckle.

If an entire litter is born weak, it may be due to a very large litter (7 babies or more), the litter may have been born prematurely (before day 64) or the sow may suffer from some kind of disease, e.g. malnutrition, scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) or Sellnick. Prematurely born babies are characterised by white, soft nails and a poor coat. During the winter, babies that are born perfectly healthy may soon deteriorate, if the sow doesn't clean and nurse them immediately after birth, as they will soon become cold and die from chilling or pneumonia. Such a litter may very quickly die, and will be found cold and wet in the bedding.

Occasionally it is also seen that a baby born at normal size and time, and which looks perfectly healthy at birth, begins to lose weight after a few days and fade. It may be due to some inborn abnormality or due to a poor suckling reflex. In the latter case such a baby is most likely to die if it is not hand reared.

There are different opinions on whether it's worth trying to save a weak baby. If the baby is lying on its side and is unable to stand up or it is lying on its belly and is unable to lift its head it is pointless to try to save it, as it is already dying. Such babies should be euthanised, as they are suffering. But a weak baby, which is just small and shaky, but looks otherwise healthy may be worth a try. A wet and cold baby may need to be taken inside the house and dried and warmed, before being returned to the shed, but there is always the risk that it will get pneumonia due to chilling and die anyway.

[Die Fledermaus]

Here's more. . .

Foster Mother

This is the easiest way to rear a weak or orphaned baby. If a sow with a large litter is put together with a sow with a small litter, the two sows will as a rule share the babies between them, giving the babies from the large litter a better chance. If a sow dies leaving a litter of newborn babies, this method can be useful as well. Most sows accept orphan babies. If not it may help to rub them with droppings and bedding from the fostering sow's hutch, to give them the right smell, and sometimes it may help to remove her own babies for about an hour and leave her with the new babies only. Some sows more readily than others accept orphan babies, so if the trick doesn't work with the first sow try to find another.

Motivation is biggest in a sow with a litter only a few days old. To ensure that there are always foster sows available, I know that some fanciers always put several sows to boars on the same day, as they will then litter about the same time and be able to share babies or to rear orphan babies, if bad luck should strike and a sow is lost.

Hand Rearing

Before starting hand rearing, you must understand that it is a tremendous job, and that you are unlikely to win the battle. With that it mind it is less heart breaking if the baby dies in spite of all your efforts. Don't ever blame yourself if the baby dies. Hand rearing is very difficult and the result doesn't depend on your own efforts only, but also on the viability and the courage of the baby.

The smaller, younger and weaker the baby, the poorer the odds. Very large babies may be able to survive without help, but most babies, who lose their mothers before two weeks of age will need some extra care and attention.

I'm sure there are many ways of hand rearing a baby, and many opinions on the matter, and I would be happy to hear about successful methods. The one described below I use and recommend myself, and it often proves successful.

At chemists or supermarkets you can obtain powdered baby food in boxes. Buy a sort that is suitable for the youngest babies, i.e. based on maize or rice flour with or without fruit flavour. Choose one where you only have to add water, as it contains milk whose components are modified to increase digestibility and act more protectively and be less alien to the guts.

Make a thin porridge and feed carefully through a 2cc syringe. Start with 1Acc and try with another 1Acc 15 minutes later. Repeat until the baby refuses to eat. You'll soon learn how much it needs when it's full. You can also make a feed yourself as a thin rice or maize porridge with a little blackcurrant Ribena juice in, but my experience is, that the milk and the added vitamins in the baby porridge do a lot of good, and it's much easier to use. After a couple of days start with some fruit sauce as well, either homemade or baby food in glasses. Never forget to offer water or thin fruit juice in a syringe as well, as much is wanted. Don't ever try to force any food item or water through the cavy's mouth, as there is a great risk of aspiration into the airways. The advantages of the afore mentioned method are listed below:

* Feeding milk only requires many daily and nightly meals, as it is quickly digested. Porridge is more filling, and only 4-5 meals a day are required. Feeding during the night is not necessary.
* Cavy milk is different in composition compared with other animal species so feeding cow's milk is not very suitable for a cavy stomach anyway.
* Porridge is less likely to run out through the nose or down through the air pipe causing pneumonia.
* The intestinal tract is well developed from birth and is able to digest much more than just milk.

* Baby food is rich in Vitamin C, which is also essential for baby cavies. Other food items or milk preparations don't necessarily contain Vitamin C.

After a meal, clean around the mouth with a small piece of cotton. Also clean around the anal opening, as this will stimulate urination and stools.

As mentioned earlier, hand rearing is not an easy task, and many babies never survive. It may be because the baby was too weak before the need for hand rearing was realised. Milk running down the airways, causing pneumonia or suffocation, is another common cause of death. Finally, many babies succumb because of infection, as no food apart from milk from their own species contains specific antibodies against harmful germs in their surroundings. when hand rearing a cavy baby, the coat is unlikely to develop so well as in naturally fed babies, probably because there is something unknown in the cavy sow's milk, necessary for normal development of the coat. Only when the baby can eat entirely by itself, does normal growth of coat seem to begin. A hand reared coat lacks the usual lustre and density, is dry and bristling. So don't expect to be able to show a hand reared longhair, and even with the short haired cavies it will take a couple of months before the coat looks normal and healthy.

The baby must be encouraged to start eating as quickly as possible. So offer grass and other herbs or greens everyday, as well as the best quality hay, dry food and water in a bottle. Company is another good idea, as many babies lose their spirit when kept on their own. M old friendly sow or boar will nurse the babies and keep them warm and comfortable, increasing the chance of survival.

[angel2]

thank you!!!!!!!
our babies made it through the night and they've taken 3 feeds already this morning. i haven't been able to find a lot on the internet about hand-rearing (or rather, detailed things like you found). lots of sites have little notes that sometimes hand-rearing is necessary but thats about it.
thanx very much
and now the mothers not looking too good - she's not eaing or drinking and has an appointment with a vet today.
fingers crossed
thanx again
angel

[Die Fledermaus]

Keep us posted. best to your GP family.

[angel2]

our babies are now orphans. their mum died on Friday
but they've started eating banana today all by themselves - its the first interest they've shown in any food apart from replacer milk, so yay!
info much appreciated
thanx again
angel

[Die Fledermaus]

Sorry about the mom. What did the vet say happened to her?

Best to the babies.

I rescued some lovely animals today, including a gerbil with no back legs (!). i will post photos as soon as I get the memory card reader to my digi cam working again.

[angel2]

a gerbil with no back legs? hmmmm - does he get around ok? will make interesting pics.

the vet was a bit of a **** really. he wasn't gentle with her (Izzy) and pulled her round when she obviously wasn't a happy piggy. he put her on Baytril and said she's probably just not comfortable. she died a day and a half later. i took my mouse to see him at the same time and he was rough with him and got bitten. i've helped give injections to that mouse twice before and nobody ever got bitten - he was just ..... arghhhhh
rant over sorry
but he gave Izzy Baytril and just said she'd be ok, which she clearly wasn't from the state of her - she hadn't eaten, or drunk, was skinny even tho she'd just had babies, was acting down and not even lifting her head, and he really just didn't give a ****. well ****** me off
so we really don't know what happened.
there's this thing called toxemia that pigs get just before or just after giving birth but i don't know a lot about it - it only gets brief mentions in all the books
<sigh>
thanx for caring
angel

[Die Fledermaus]

Ohhhh. . . GP's are susceptible to some malady before and after birth. Well, since i will NEVER breed them, even if I ever get some, i am not concerned about that.

I got a response back from the maker of the memory card reader for my digi cam - it is voluminously long and complex about doing stuff with the PC registry and other things. Yikes. Maybe later. Until I get this straightened out all photos remain on the memory cards.

It will be interesting to see a photo of the legless one, who I now think is a female.It looks like a birth defect as both legs are identical and symmetrical. She gets around fine, and eventually will have a tankmate.

That vet surely got you PO'd. I hope you politely but assertively told him to handle the critters in a more appropriate manner. I had Makeeda at a vet today (see Hamster forum in a few minutes) and he handled her just fine.